tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post1992987672680083806..comments2023-12-30T00:30:21.906-08:00Comments on The Hippie Housewife: The Rod Verses: Taking other Proverbs literallyHippie Housewifehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-18192754922454975292013-03-01T05:47:09.213-08:002013-03-01T05:47:09.213-08:00If you can't get your children to learn from y...If you can't get your children to learn from you without physically striking them, you'd make a poor public school teacher. Kids aren't dummies. They must know a lot of preachers are adulterers and moral failures. Yet preachers never get hit for their own sins. Why are children't sins a lot worse than those of grownups? One preacher who hollers the loudest about sin in america and the need to spank kids left his wife for a cute chick, ditched his family and started another one. How's that for hypocrisy? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-55427769835732360942012-11-28T12:36:11.001-08:002012-11-28T12:36:11.001-08:00Shared!! This is awesome, and exactly how I feel a...Shared!! This is awesome, and exactly how I feel about the subject. We are Christians, but never hit/spank our children <3 Bridget Williamsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-79569137701428772782011-11-21T10:50:19.604-08:002011-11-21T10:50:19.604-08:00L&L, I specified no corporal punishment of you...L&L, I specified no corporal punishment <i>of young children</i>, not no corporal punishment in general. None of the examples you briefly mentioned support the idea of striking a young child.<br /><br />I do wholeheartedly agree with you that the rod verses are not "flowery philosophical metaphors", but rather very weighty warnings given to parents on the subject of authoritatively disciplining, correcting, teaching, and guiding their children along right paths. They are not to be taken lightly nor brushed off at all.Hippie Housewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-89228315704273732122011-11-21T10:34:21.595-08:002011-11-21T10:34:21.595-08:00To claim there is no evidence in the Scriptures fo...To claim there is no evidence in the Scriptures for corporeal punishment is a bit far-fetched. stone your rebellious son, the proverbs as instructions (not just flowery philosophical metaphors), and most importantly, Jesus dying a physical death on the cross to satisfy the wrath of God are enough for me to consider allowing for physical consequences for sin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-70336597859911404152011-11-20T11:12:05.389-08:002011-11-20T11:12:05.389-08:00Ah, that makes far more sense, thank you for clari...Ah, that makes far more sense, thank you for clarifying. I hadn't noticed that difference in translations.Hippie Housewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-83167350526624479022011-11-20T07:27:48.204-08:002011-11-20T07:27:48.204-08:00HHW,
I guess I thought you were censoring my comme...HHW,<br />I guess I thought you were censoring my comment because I saw someone's comment that afternoon. It must have been the time change or something. <br /><br />Thanks for reading the article. Regarding, Proverbs 14:3, I didn't get a chance to look at other translations, but when I read that verse in the ESV it said: "By the mouth of a fool comes a rod for his back..." and the footnote states that it could also mean the "rod of pride."Denisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-40070366643275631792011-11-19T18:04:37.480-08:002011-11-19T18:04:37.480-08:00Denise, I have to apologize, I believe I spoke too...Denise, I have to apologize, I believe I spoke too harshly. Although I had told you before that I don't censor comments here and thus did not appreciate the accusation, I can understand why the delay in publishing would make you think I had removed it. I do appreciate and value the time you have put in to your replies.Hippie Housewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-37678016014259379802011-11-19T17:38:36.644-08:002011-11-19T17:38:36.644-08:00"That verse in chapter 14 is not "clearl..."That verse in chapter 14 is not "clearly figurative," it's only figurative in the footnote!"<br /><br />I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that the "rod of pride" in the fool's mouth is not necessarily figurative? That there truly is a rod in the fool's mouth?Hippie Housewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-26489276314339412102011-11-19T17:37:29.946-08:002011-11-19T17:37:29.946-08:00Denise, I have not censored a single comment and d...Denise, I have not censored a single comment and do not appreciate the accusation in the least. Comments are currently moderated and I was not at home this afternoon to publish them. Now that I am home, I have published everything that was there. Censorship has never had a place here nor will it in the future.Hippie Housewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-19665016530868368892011-11-19T17:35:00.656-08:002011-11-19T17:35:00.656-08:00That verse in chapter 14 is not "clearly figu...That verse in chapter 14 is not "clearly figurative," it's only figurative in the footnote!<br /><br />Also, I would appreciate it if you didn't censor my last comment in the other post. I spent a lot of time on that one and I wish you would inform us ahead of time if there are other reasons besides insults that you censor a comment so that we are not wasting our time.Denisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-2026452836535082932011-11-19T16:59:03.116-08:002011-11-19T16:59:03.116-08:00I've really enjoyed reading these posts... wel...I've really enjoyed reading these posts... well done!!Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12688419645901750448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-72206095871235550052011-11-19T09:27:29.859-08:002011-11-19T09:27:29.859-08:00Karyn, what a great example. Although personally,...Karyn, what a great example. Although personally, I'm the one in need of the camping trip at those times!<br /><br />Mama Psalmist, interesting point. Little value is placed on poetry in our society, so it is little wonder we struggle to recognize the depth such language contains.<br /><br />Denise, thank you for sharing that perspective. The rod is also used in a clearly figurative manner elsewhere in Proverbs (such as chapter 14, the rod of pride in the fool's mouth), so it's not as straightforward as the author would suggest. I will examine the issue more on Monday in Part 3. As for discipline, it is often painful all on its own; the parent does not need to add additional pain on top of that in order for the child to understand the seriousness of the issue. There are more effective ways than pain in discipling a child into maturity. The Bible clearly, however, speaks against a hands-off permissive style of parenting; I believe we are in agreement on that point.<br /><br />Anon, thank you for sharing your experience. A parent who accepts his authority with calm certainty rather than attempting to enforce it through pain is often far more effective in his discipline, winning his child's trust and respect rather than fear.<br /><br />Dulce, Ashley, Nicole, thank you. I deeply appreciate your encouragement.Hippie Housewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-52219028184503838562011-11-18T04:52:16.973-08:002011-11-18T04:52:16.973-08:00This is great!This is great!Nicolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12416478929643863722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-43323692428886225202011-11-17T21:03:29.812-08:002011-11-17T21:03:29.812-08:00These are really great posts! I appreciate you tak...These are really great posts! I appreciate you taking the time to write it so well.ashleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10982050095869237882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-2999055604106216982011-11-17T18:28:10.974-08:002011-11-17T18:28:10.974-08:00Brilliant, as always! I am so thankful for your d...Brilliant, as always! I am so thankful for your deep love and respect for God's Word, and that it matters enough to you to go beyond a superficial reading into the heart of what God is truly teaching us. <3 Thank you!dulce de lechehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01641970264436339191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-10365523870909985812011-11-17T12:23:46.101-08:002011-11-17T12:23:46.101-08:00Samuel, that would be most welcome indeed.Samuel, that would be most welcome indeed.Hippie Housewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14718357472343295031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-11821329525167401762011-11-17T12:19:26.704-08:002011-11-17T12:19:26.704-08:00hi..
I like this alot. Maybe if you like I can se...hi..<br /><br />I like this alot. Maybe if you like I can send you some info on proverbs which might spark your research interests more.<br /><br />Let me know.<br /><br />All the best<br /><br />sam - www.biblechild.comSamuel Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073427515747592924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-25155001823065946282011-11-17T09:46:33.848-08:002011-11-17T09:46:33.848-08:00The reality that correction, punishment, and disci...The reality that correction, punishment, and discipline can be done without striking seems to be lost on so many. My mother spanked me, my father did not...care to guess which one I have always respected more? I never questioned my father's authority, nor disrespected him. My mother on the other hand, she and I were at constant loggerheads. That's just one small personal example. My father corrected me, my father disciplined me, but he did not do it with a literal rod or his hand. <br /><br />Your post is inspiring. I couldn't agree with you more. I had always planned to be a spanker (after all, my mother did it, and I "turned out okay.") but then I remembered that we are told by His Word that we are to do everything we do to the glory of God. When I delved into His Word on the subject of discipline, I found nothing to literally support corporal punishment...as you are so eloquently demonstrating. Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-21567128114379528602011-11-17T08:14:51.321-08:002011-11-17T08:14:51.321-08:00Consider this article by David Miller:
http://www....Consider this article by David Miller:<br />http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=7&article=1255<br />"Lest someone get the idea that Solomon used the term “rod” figuratively, without intending to leave the impression that parents should actually strike their children with a rod, he clarified the target: “Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hell” (23:13-14). A proper balance is obviously needed between verbal reproof/encouragement on the one hand, and the application of corporal punishment on the other, as seen in the following words: “The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother. Correct your son, and he will give you rest; yes, he will give delight to your soul” (29:15,17, emp. added). The immense importance of the interplay between positive instruction, encouragement, and nurturing, in conjunction with appropriate physical punishment, cannot be overestimated nor successfully discounted."<br />Also, he points out that if Proverbs 10:13 and 26:3 are obviously literal understandings of the word "rod" why would Solomon suddenly switch to the figurative use in the passages in question?<br />Also, I can't help but add a quote in the article for a professor over a hundred years ago, but just as relevant today:<br /><br />"The primitive rigour of the Book of Proverbs is repudiated by modern manners. Not only in domestic training, but even in criminal law, people reject the old harsh methods, and endeavor to substitute milder means of correction. No doubt there was much that was more than rough, even brutal, in the discipline of our forefathers. The relation between father and child was too often lacking in sympathy through the undue exercise of parental authority, and society generally was hardened rather than purged by pitiless forms of punishment. But now the question is whether we are not erring towards the opposite extreme in showing more tenderness to the criminal than to his victim, and failing to let our children feel the need of some painful discipline. We idolize comfort, and we are in danger of thinking pain to be worse than sin. It may be well, therefore, to consider some of the disadvantages of neglecting the old-fashioned methods of chastisement."Denisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-70425376207140908012011-11-17T08:08:06.856-08:002011-11-17T08:08:06.856-08:00As the wife of a poet, my skin crawls when someone...As the wife of a poet, my skin crawls when someone tries to use the proverbs as literal promises. Blech! <br /><br />But as a society, we're so far removed from the art of crafting words beautifully to illustrate concepts that we seem to have forgotten it was ever done at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5051258436941012775.post-74828452139959083502011-11-17T07:35:28.494-08:002011-11-17T07:35:28.494-08:00I love how much thought and research you put into ...I love how much thought and research you put into your posts. Absolutely love it.<br /><br />The image I'm coming away with from this? A man saying, "My wife has PMS; I'm going camping." You know, that might not be a bad idea... ;)Karynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13481484074210475160noreply@blogger.com